I stole this headline from the Family Planning Association because it says it all. Regular readers may have noticed I get rather angry about the Human Embryology Bill. I am utterly delighted to see it pass another hurdle tonight, but I am still apprehensive about tomorrows vote on the abortion limit.
MPs from all parties, including most notably David Cameron and Nadine Dorries, are peddaling downright lies that could change forever the lives of the tiny, tiny proportion of women, many of them vulnerable, in abusive relationships or very young, who seek late term abortions and force them to carry their pregnancies to full term against their will. The most recent and fully comprehensive report on the survival of foetuses before 24 weeks has shown there has been no change in the survival rates of a foetus before 24 weeks in the last ten years. NO CHANGE.
Despite this, Nadine Dorries MP, the woman behind this, insists that the report is a “desperate piece of tosh produced by the pro-choice lobby”. I’m sorry, this report, covering not one but sixteen hospitals over ten years, and based on science, something this woman has no understanding of, is made up? She justifies her claim with the argument “So where has all the money that has been pumped into neo-natal services gone then?” Sweet Jesus. Note she doesn’t allow comments on her website- could she possibly be afraid of being corrected?
I am finding it hard to convey just how angry and sick this woman makes me feel. And David Cameron supports her. When you’re standing at the ballot box at the next election, stop and think how many women they have tried to control. How many children they want to be born into abusive relationships. How many young women they want to have babies forced through their barely developed bodies. How many desperate, terrified women they want to be forced to carry foetuses to full term because of Cameron and Dorries’ selfish, selfish attitudes.
Yes, we have too many abortions. Restricting access is not the answer. Leave these women alone. Respect their choice, one of the hardest they will ever have to make. Respect their rights to live how they want to live. Respect their intelligence by not suggesting they “should have used contraception”, or “shouldn’t have had sex”, or worst of all “should have known sooner”. Women need 24 weeks for a reason. Don’t let these sad deluded people, or the lack of eloquence in this rambling, angry blog, tell you otherwise.
Lobby your MP. Don’t let these people take away women’s rights.
Filed under: Brigid Jones's Diary, Cameron, Conservative Party, Tories' Porkies, Women | Tagged: abortion, fucking morons, Nadine Dorries
Birmingham University Labour Students
John Ritchie
tommarley
brigidjones
tomguise
Gary
daveborland
bensemens
No.
PS - Have you thought of aborting babies for a living - I hear there’s a shortage.
Yes.
PS - Have you thought about becoming an Engineer for a living? I can tell you there is a shortage at the moment. But then you would have to be qualified with academic and professional qualifications to do that job, just like you would to be a surgeon… or to do whatever Dom does for a living, I guess.
A reduction combined with a massive education programme in schools would reduce the limit of abortions and the very need for them in the first place.
Yes to the education. No to the cut.
It’s not normal for a termination to happen after 20 weeks and an education program wouldn’t generally affect those who need such late abortions.
I’m a physicist, Fisher, not a physician. What do you do, out of interest?
Have you thought about becoming an Engineer for a living?
No, but I wouldn’t be interested in it. Bridget would seem to be an unusually highly motivated abortionist in the making.
Bridget, I’m an accountancy tutor/business consultant/unpaid political activist. I’m very happy with my career path.
A letter from a nurse ;
‘At 20 weeks, tablets can be given to kill the foetus prior to expulsion. But at 24 weeks it is sufficiently strong to survive the treatment and many are born with signs of life. “It is all too easy for people to picture a clump of cells or mush. People don’t want to picture perfectly-formed miniature babies and I don’t blame them, I was once the same,” says Kay. “But having cut the umbilical cord on one who survived, then had to watch him gasp for breath for ten minutes on the side of a sink before he died, that sight will haunt me for ever.” The reason given for that particular termination was that the mother’s current boyfriend had a toddler son who might get jealous of a new baby. It took them 21 weeks to come to that conclusion. Kay adds: “I know of two nurses who went off work with stress as a result of their experience with late terminations. I suffered horrendous nightmares and guilt for months. The guilt comes from the fact that you as a nurse cut the umbilical cord and, as dramatic as it sounds, we felt like murderers.” Kay doesn’t believe in hounding or criminalising women who have to make this extremely tough decision owing to severe disability. Her misgivings are reserved solely for those who use termination as a form of contraception. Women who, up until last week, I hoped were few and far between. But, according to Kay, these terminations far outstrip those carried out because of fetal abnormality or genuine emotional distress. She says: “There are girls who come back five or six times demanding terminations and they get them. How can someone coming for their fifth termination be allowed to keep saying it is due to emotional distress? I should imagine in ten years’ time the emotional distress of being allowed to have five terminations is going to take its toll. What is going on?”
The abortion issue is about ethics. Ethics are about humanity. For me this has three dimensions - rights, duties and the wider impact on society.
Bridget has had a lot to say about rights, but little about the other points. Is it not our duty to protect the weakest and most vulnerable? And does not this legislation set a tone for our society? The actions of others do affect us all. Should we turn away and ignore what we believe to be wrong?
Brigid - sorry it’s because of the film.
I sympathise greatly with the nurse quoted. It can’t be one of the happier parts of the job and I can imagine it would at times cause distress. But I would practice what I preach, and if I were a nurse or a doctor and the mother wanted the pregnancy terminated I would ethically have no problem facilitaing it, despite knowing how upsetting the reality is likely to be.
Abortion should never be viewed as contraception, it should be used when contraception has failed or wasn’t possible. However, cutting the limit is not the way to go about solving this. Access to earlier abortion, the morning after pill and better education are what is needed. But accidents can and always will happen, and that is when abortion is for.
Yes, it is about ethics. And in my code of ethics I place the rights and wishes of the mother above the rights of the foetus until at least 24 weeks. Yes, we should protect the most vulnerable in society- but as I quoted in my main post, foetuses younger than 24 weeks have an incredibly slim chance of surviving- one that has not improved in twevle years.
There is a cut off point, and I have not seen a shred of evidence to suggest it is currently in the wrong place. Late abortions are not ideal by any costs- but don’t cut access, tackle the reasons they occur so late in the first place.
Don’t worry even my own mother pronounces it bridget these days.
Oh, dear PT, is this really what you’ve come down to - trying to bully students because you couldn’t hack playing with the big boys.
[...] blog, where Brigid, who’s a physicist and therefore immediately in my good books, had a few words to say on the subject of tomorrow’s abortion debate. It’s quite a nice little summary [...]
Unity, I’m sure that Brigid doesn’t need special treatment.
Then why are you here dishing it out, Praguetory?
For those who don’t know Dominic Fisher, he will change his values as readily as he will change his socks. There is nothing he won’t pretend to be outraged about one minute and let slip by the next; it all depends on what his Conservative allies require of him at the time.
That he would smear someone else as a mercenary is typical of his unspeakable chutzpah.
John:
Can I just check something with you, here?
The ‘why not become an engineer’ wouldn’t be quite a clever little dig, would it?
I know the University quite well from a fair few years back, and one of its less popular, but occasionally used, methods by which some students chose to conclude their studies was the swan dive off the clock tower.
Now as I recall, and for reasons unknown, it did always seem to be engineering students who tended to take this particular route as opposed to some of the other favoured options, like trying to cross the Bristol Road while pissed or eating in one or two the curry houses in Selly Oak.
Of course, the clock tower is now fenced off, which is rather a pity as I’m sure I’d enjoy seeing PT take a guided tour, but your comment did make me wonder whether any of the local folklore about the clock tower has survived.
U.
It’s only fenced off for some repairs I believe, usually it is open to walk under, although that ofcourse is a social no-no as it leads to certain failure if done when the bells chime. i choose not to ever go under it.
on a serious note, i think praguetory and the views of senior tories who support a reduction to 12 weeks, i think our Dave does as well. this is one of those long-term political dividing lines and ultimately proves to the voters just how little the tory part has actually moved forward in the last couple of years! i welcome this debate!!
Dave Lambert - you are a tool.
I’m speaking up for 20 weeks. The ’slippery slope’ argument (e.g. they really mean 12 weeks) is a fallacious one.
http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2008/05/20/praguetory-still-a-cunt/
you seem to suggest here that you support 12 weeks. on second reading maybe you dont. clarify….
‘That he would smear someone else as a mercenary is typical of his unspeakable chutzpah.’
I’m not smearing anyone as a mercenary. I’m being direct because it’s an important debate and I wanted Brigid to consider some different angles. I don’t expect to change her mind.
Yes, you are… with your none-too-subtle ‘abortion industry’ nonsense (i.e. the kind of nonsense that Dorries blurts out).
Dominic - if you think the slippery slope argument is a fallacy then perhaps you could explain why Mad Nad has this to say in comments at the Spectator:
“I do not stand at zero weeks. I believe life begins and ends with the first and last heartbeat, which is around 9 - 12 weeks.
What I do believe in, is women being in full possession of the facts and at the moment they aren’t, because the woman might change her mind and that would get in the way of the abortionist waiting for a payment.
A woman seeking an abortion in this country is the victim of a well organised industry.
You are right about one thing, I do want to go lower than 20 weeks - I would settle for the European average of 13 weeks, but would prefer 9.”
Aside from being utterly wrong on the heartbeat this - first sign of circulatory activity is at about 21 day gestation - that pretty much proves that you’re bullshitting as usual.
Still, as you’re here, maybe its time to revive a couple of your all time classic comments:
“George [Osborne] is a man that bangs on about his amazingly normal childhood, but was one of the greatest alcohol and substance abusers at Magdalen College. Of all the people who could go on to be an MP from there, he is one of the most unsuitable, in the estimation of a good friend of mine. I know that all the Tory MPs wish him well - that is understandable in a misguided way - but let’s be honest, he’s an economically illiterate w*nker with a plum in his mouth.”
And
“At conference I had to withstand him equating tax cuts with economic instability. Well, f*ck off George [Osborne, again]. Read the facts. As Tories, in the non-too-distant, we will need to be making the case for less tax, less spending, less laws,(I hope). You’re ripping the heart out of that argument. You are not a real Tory. Get out of my life.”
You know, you never did say how your day out canvassing with George went… share any confidences perhaps?
Try to argue against me without putting words in my mouth. Anyway, back to work - priming the pump for future donations to a vast right-wing conspiracy.
For the record, I wrote the second one, not the first.
Oh, before you go, PT…
A mate of mine’s just had a bit of a prang in his motor - any idea how he goes about making a claim?
Could he talk to you, perhaps?
08700 116 720, isn’t it?
Try to argue against me without putting words in my mouth
Quite, I much prefer evidence,,,
http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2007/01/22/whoops-apocalypse/
You really do have a bad memory, don’t you…
Touching though your concern for my education is, Dom, I have to say I’m finding Unity’s lessons far more insightful and enjoyable.
Dom said: “Bridget would seem to be an unusually highly motivated abortionist in the making.”
Then Dom said: “I’m not smearing anyone as a mercenary. I’m being direct because it’s an important debate and I wanted Brigid to consider some different angles.”
Can I recommend last night’s C4 documentary on the Christian extremists? Nadine Dorries’ co-conspirator Andrea WIlliams was nicely skewered by the reporting. As I noted on Unity’s blog last night, the sight of Mad Nad’s face freezing as her friend was asked whether she believed that Islam is inherently evil was worth the hour on its own.
In the Grauniad yesterday, Nad claimed that one of the reasons that women need late abortions is that they are simply procrastinating. Mind, she also reckons that feminism is a bit of let down because her daughters have to pay half when they go on dates, so I’m not sure I’d pay her views much attention at the best of time.
I think this Blog has successfully seen the demise of PragueTory as well as exposing the weakness of the Tories’ policy in this area. Shrewd Brigid, Shrewd!
Tories’ policy?
I might have meant “policy”