Quite simply I think yes and not only that but it may actually help this ‘binge drinking epidemic’ the media constantly tell us we are experiencing.
I first came to this opinion when I was 17. I had been out on a Friday night unable to get served in most pubs and bars in the town where I had been and with my mates resorted to buying alcohol from an off-license. Sad as this seems this was what the elusive delights of alcohol brought us naive teenagers to do. There is a new programme on E4 called The Inbetweeners. It is about 4 adolescent no-hopers growing up in suburbia. In their attempts at impressing girls and pissing off their parents it is the story of my youth. However, I was struck in the first episode through the lengths with which they went to get served in a pub.
Fact is many underage young-people drink. According to National Trading Standards 1 in 5 pubs sell alcohol to underage customers. A NHS study also suggests that over a third of secondary school students admit(!) to having been in a pub, club or bar in the last month. The shocking thing is underage teenagers want to drink. I would also argue that, fundamentally, you can’t stop them. They will always be able to get drink off their parents or older friends. Preventing young people from drinking is a loosing battle, if one that is approved by the Daily Mail and ‘middle England’.
This opinion is borne out of my personal experience though the reason to write this blog came from listening to Richard Bacon(the former Blue Peter presenter) on Five Live last night. Why as an immature teenager was I so desperate to get lashed at the end of the week? If you can solve that conundrum, so the argument goes, you can stop antisocial behaviour, crime, teenage pregnancies and world poverty.
Keeping 16 and 17 years olds out of pubs will not prevent them getting drunk when they finally do turn 18.
What does the ban achieve? Firstly it makes it more likely they will drink on the streets and engage in anti-social behaviour. Secondly it makes alcohol more elusive, and as a young person I was never deterred by the fact what I was doing was illegal. Safe in the knowledge that a year down the line it would be legal it induced me to find more ingenious ways to get served. Out came the fake ID came.
Young people get drunk, this is after all a student blog, and we are eminently experienced to tell you that. I think it is also true that young people grow out of that phase. Today alcohol is not then ends for me. I drink because it is sociable, especially on a summer afternoon in a beer garden with some friends. I no longer have the burning desire to get lashed of my face and throw up in a gutter. Thankfully that was a pastime I grew out of, like 99% of young people do.
The worse case scenario imaginable from letting 16 year olds in pubs is… that they get drunk. Shocking thing is that they would probably get drunk the week after that and the week after that. However, that’s only what a lot of 18 year olds do currently. I can’t help but think, for me at least, being able to drink (legally) at a younger age would have taken away some of alcohols’ elusive qualities and probably allowed me to mature earlier.
Filed under: National Politics, Student Politics
Birmingham University Labour Students
John Ritchie
tommarley
brigidjones
tomguise
Gary
daveborland
bensemens
Firstly, The Inbetweeners is great!
Secondly, I disagree completely with the idea of reducing the age as it smacks of being hugely defeatist. Yes, young people drink. But giving into them and making alcohol more accessible will not solve any problems. In fact, I would go so far as to argue that it would actually just push the problem further down the ages bracket. That is, whereas now 15-16 year olds get the alcohol illegally through whatever means, reducing the age limit would mean 12-13 year olds would start doing the same thing (which, in my opinion, is worse). Teenagers naturally want to push boundaries, that’s sort of what they do, but nonetheless, clear boundaries at sensible levels are needed. If that is 18 then so be it. In America it’s 21.
You do not need to give in, and whilst there may well be some sort of ‘forbidden fruit’ argument there somewhere, frankly I do not buy it. Keep it where it is, there is nothing wrong with it. To lower it would, I think, be irresponsible.
Speaking of Richard Bacon, he used to do this really funny programme for london’s XFM where he would go into a supermarket and commentate on how he was eating the food on the shelves and see how long it took for him to get thrown out, i think he stayed in one for nearly an hour once.
I am much in favour of decreasing the age to 16. In France and Germany they have it at 16, but there is also the question of culture. My parents, my dad really, would drink a glass or two of wine sometimes when he came back from work. So I grew up seeing alcohol being drunk and enjoyed in moderation. I occasionally binge, and I occasionally get drunk but I usually stop myself if I feel I’m getting out of hand.
I guess what I want to say really is that putting the age down isn’t going to be the silver-bullet. However, if you encourage 16-18 year olds into pubs then it can be monitored and responsible landlords can expel unruly customers. I think it would make a big positive impact over a long period of time.
i understand your point of view Toms. But i have to agree with Luke.
What’s more I don’t think i would want to be in a club or pub full of 16 year olds in there school lunch break, dancing in Oceana with 16 year old girls with minimal clothes on thinking that its what adults do without understanding different risks. You will see girls out that have just turned 18 new clothes loads of make-up and they are putting themselves at risk.
16 year olds going home at 3 in the morning, i don’t think this is wise. You could say that its up to the parents to make sure the child is in bed at a suitable child but not all parents will care. Also if the age was lowered then it would become socially acceptable for this to happen.
i understand going to the pub with your mates at 16 for a beer on a sunny day would be quite a pleasant experience but having groups of 16 year olds hammered walking down broad street i do not like the thought of. Don’t forget, currently with a meal a 16 year old can have a beer.
I believe it would also put extra stress on landlords and bar workers. Not only would the number of people getting drunk increase (due to smaller body mass in general) but also the level of immaturity would lower.
We have just raised the smoking age, something i believe is very important, alchahol is poison, it is not good for you and we would in fact be making it more socially acceptable to drink.
what’s this about maturing quicker? Its not a good thing. Childhood is suppose to be the best time of your life, why are we trying to push people to be adults before they naturally mature?
What do you think about teenage pregnancy? It would rocket.
As Luke said, if the age is lowered to 16, 14 year olds would be out trying to get alcohol.
First thing we need to do is put more investment into youth services, find things for teenagers to do that benefit them personally and benefit society.
We shouldn’t stop these teenagers from causing havoc on the streets by pushing them to pubs and causing havoc in privately owned buildings.
Lowering the drinking age would be BAD!!!
In Austria beer is sold from 16 onwards and there is no binge drinking culture.
my point exactly fabian!
but how do we change from how we are now to the austrian culture.
there are many things we need to do.
i dont think dropping the age would be of help.
I dont think dropping the age would help either. Sixteen year olds are not responsible enough to deal with something like alcohol. I wasnt when i was 16, and yeah i had my occasional moments where me and my mates would get some booze and get hammered, but if we were able to just go to the pub we would have done it a lot more. By the time i was 18 and able to get alcohol easily, i had realised my limits and was sensible about it (most of the time). I still have my moments (like i will on saturday night) but its simply about maturity, and I dont think 16 year olds will be responsible.
This is essentially the problem. All these 18-21 year olds who are apparently mature but do get battered on an occasional Saturday night are responsible for the out-of-control town centres we apparently experience on a Saturday night.
My question is this. If you are able to mature when you are 18 why do we decide 16 year olds are incapable of this? I think it is unlikely you actually recognised your limits when you were the tender age of 18, something which Matt actually conceeded.
If we do want to change the drinking culture, like Fabian says, lets borrow a few lessons from our continental friends. Otherwise we can bury our heads in the sand and hope this problem goes away. I wouldn’t want to ask politicalbetting.com for those odds though!
With regards to being defeatist, are we ever able to recognise the current so-called solutions may actually be worsening the situation? Forcing 16-17 year olds to drink on the streets INCREASES the chance of antisocial behaviour. Better in my opinion to put them in a pub where they are under the supervision of the bar staff.
Maybe I’m too optimistic about the maturity of this nations young people, but at least I didn’t sell out!!
Whilst it may be true that kids drinking on the streets increases antisocial behaviour, the issue is, firstly, we are not forcing them to drink anywhere, they do it illegally (it’s like saying we ‘force’ people to do their fly-tipping in the local farmers field). Secondly, from the bar staff’s perspective, such ’supervision’ of the younger people (who will almost certainly not know their limits) requires more time and effort, and should not, I believe, be a part of their responsibilities. They should not be required to baby-sit young people to ensure they do not drink too much, or cause rowdy behaviour.
The solution that is being put forward seems to follow these lines:- “Here is our problem, underage drinking. We cannot really solve this problem, so we will make it so it isn’t a problem by simply legalising it.” I’m sorry, I still say that is very defeatist. What should be being discussed here, and elsewhere, is how to combat the problem of under-age people being able to get hold of alcohol so easily. This may be a tough problem (and one I certainly don’t have the answer to), but I feel it is this issue that needs to be discussed rather than pulling out of dong anything stronger by simply saying “ok, you can have your drink because you will anyway…”
“What should be being discussed here, and elsewhere, is how to combat the problem of under-age people being able to get hold of alcohol so easily.”
I would rather not waste my breath. It would be like trying to stop boys from w*nking. We’re going to have to agree to disagree on that.
I’m with Tom Marley on this.
16 year olds will drink anyway, I certainly did. It would be far, far safer for them to do it in pubs, with spirits poured to measures rather than by their own hands, and with a barman there to refuse them more drink when they’ve had enough (which legally they must).
I’m with Pippa on the club point though- it’s bad enough the attention from older men that you get at 18, let alone 16. Then again, 16 year olds will seek out clubs anyway. I’d imagine a lot of clubs would keep to 18+ only, just like many are currently 21+ (Oceana at weekends, for example, and the Jam House).
Perhaps a comprimise could work. 16-17s allowed in pubs, but only single measures and <5% beers. Allowed up to four offy cans, but not a bottle of spirits. Clubs that choose to allow 16 year olds only being allowed to open til two or something.
Another thought- rather than do it by age, do it by school year. A big problem when I turned 18 was that while I could get into places, mates born towards the summer were often unable to get into pubs and we often chose the offy/outside drinking route, so they wouldn’t be left out. If everyone in the same peer group could go out together we wouldn’t have that problem and they could all be drinking inside together, rather than on the streets.
Pseudo-liberalism gone mad
age of consent to 12
driving at 13
active military duty from 9
Smoking at 7
HGV licenses for 4 year olds
Voting from the age of two
The argument of specific age based responsibility is a non starter. No one purports that every 18 year old can handle alcohol responsibly. Age limits are a tool that confer that the vast majority of people over that figure ought to be able to act in a responsible way. It isn’t someone’s ‘right’ at the age of [insert age here], but the understanding that they can handle whatever the activity is.
Yob culture, anti-social behaviour, alcohol motivated knife crime, skyrocketing rates of alcohol addiction, police forces over stretched. Hardly reasons that would suggest that lowering the age will do any good. Call me a consiquentialist if you like, but my right to buy a licence drug is not an irrefutable right.
The culture argument is quite quaint too, Lowering the age is going to have us all sipping a fine Merlot in cafes adorning tree lined boulevards before the year is out. I can just see the Brit with his litre of beer, slowly sipping it in a beerhall garden.
Real solution:
Promoting Parental Responsibility
Investing in Education and Youth Services
Community Policing
Young people don’t need to drink, they just think they do
[...] start with. It’s easy, for example to break the law in relation to drinking underage (it was this post that made me consider this whole point), because, apparently, it isn’t hurting anyone [...]
to clarify my point, i know my limits to mean im not throwing up in an ally and that i can get nice and drunk on a night out and still be able to get a cab home and not get in any trouble, and if trouble finds me like it sometimes has, im able to handle it. Im not sure if i would be happy seeing a 16 year old getting a taxi home at midnight-3am irrespective of alcohol.
Come on, how else are they meant to get around, not all of us had bikes and if you don’t have a job/have a job on the lower rate minimum wage, you don’t have money for a cab! I think its naive to think they’ll all be tucked up at home if theyre not out in a club.
Where Peter and Tom seem to disagree is in whether a lower drinking age will curb antisocial behaviour or make it worse… I reckon it could actually make things better, if it were handled right. Like allowing 16-17 in pubs for single measures, but not to an off licemce,
would get drinkers off the streets and have them drinking around *more responsible* older drinkers- well, most of them at least. Surely these are better role models to be surrounded by than their mates?
who’s to say that some clubs and pubs won’t keep the over 18 limit? or even have a curfew for younger drinkers. just like some clubs and pubs have over 21s only.
[...] and obviously the causes of crime too Posted on 31 May, 2008 by tommarley In a previous post I advocated liberalisation of the drinking laws, in particular reducing the age at which you can [...]
i dont think they would be tucked up in bed but i do think seeing as there is little to do from about 11 o clock that they would be at a house. Most of the time i would end up just hanging out with mates at someones home. I dont mind them getting taxis im just saying i dont consider it safe for them to be out at 3 in the morning